The Fountain Movie
Storyline
TAGLINES
What if you could live forever?
Death frees every soul.
Death as an act of creation.
What if you could love forever?
Three stories - one each from the past, present, and future - about men in pursuit of eternity with their love. A conquistador in Mayan country searches for the tree of life to free his captive queen; a medical researcher, working with various trees, looks for a cure that will save his dying wife; a space traveler, traveling with an aged tree encapsulated within a bubble, moves toward a dying star that's wrapped in a nebula; he seeks eternity with his love. The stories intersect and parallel; the quests fail and succeed.
| Hugh Jackman | Tomas/Tommy/Dr. Tom Creo |
| Rachel Weisz | Queen Isabel/Izzi Creo |
| Ellen Burstyn | Dr. Lillian Guzetti |
| Mark Margolis | Father Avila |
| Stephen McHattie | Grand Inquisitor Silecio |
| Fernando Hernandez | Lord of Xibalba |
| Cliff Curtis | Captain Ariel |
| Sean Patrick Thomas | Antonio |
| Donna Murphy | Betty |
| Ethan Suplee | Manny |
| Richard McMillan | Henry |
| Lorne Brass | Dr. Alan Lipper |
| Renee Asofsky | Lab Technician |
| Anish Majumdar | Dr. Spencer |
| Darren Aronofsky |
Visitor Reviews
Blown away by this...
posted on 26 Aug 2009Im not an over dramatic guy, trust me, I fit the alpha bloke type category but this movie blew me away. I don't like romance movies, cant really stomach them, this is so different. Its so out there and thought provoking you really forget reality for the duration of this movie. The visuals are up there with the best. It's simply stunning, like an elaborate acid trip at times, but stunning. The acting is great with two Hollywood heavyweights (Jackman and Weisz) taking a break from the frequent wooden epics to deliver great and genuine performances.It is a great story line that breaks from harsh reality to fantasy to flashbacks in history and then on to an obscure future. Its a real insight of love and the fear and concept of loosing that love, it takes you there. I don't believe you need to understand the movie first time round, (if anytime) but experience it, let it take you for the ride.Loved it, have now watched all of Aronofsky's work on the back of this.
Filled with silly, pretentious, artsy metaphysics and loved every minute of it
posted on 24 Aug 2009I can understand why a large number of people would not like this movie. This movie is not escapism, which turns many people away. There is nothing wrong with escapism: after working or studying all week many people just want rest their brain for 2 hours on the weekend, and escape from seriousness. This film takes itself seriously, but because it isn't merely a character drama or a political film, people find it pretentious. Finally, the movie is filled with religious, philosophical, and holistic symbolism, which may come off as silly to some. If you think those points I mentioned would not detract you from seeing this film, then keep reading. This IS one of the better Science Fiction films since "2001", mainly because it thinks beyond telling a simple hero story with gadgets. While it does have a bit of neuroscience and astronomy laced in there, the themes are more about philosophy's biggest questions, and it does not ask them in a simple or patronizing way. The acting is also very powerful from both leads, the visual effects are gorgeous, and the music is great. I also don't think those who call it a jumbled mess are giving it a valid critique: like Kubrick, Aronofsky uses an unconventional narrative structure to give the themes more coherence than the story, and does this with skillful technique much like "2001" or "Eyes Wide Shut". I have never seen "Pi" or "Requiem for a Dream", so I really can't compare it to his previous works. I will say that I came out of the movie struck by its beauty and emotion, and dwelled on its intellect for days. This is one of my favorites, and I will definitely be seeing this one quite a few more times.
Food for the Mind
posted on 24 Aug 2009I can't say enough about this movie; except that it is definitely an "aquired taste". It's not for everyone. Everyone, that is, that's seeking a quick fix of entertainment. This movie tickles the mind and gives it a work out. I actually didn't see it until this week, because I was waiting for some kind of feedback on whether or not it was worth it. I got no confirmation (that was my cue to watch it). I must admit, I had to watch this film about 4 times to "get it", but after the first time, I was hooked. The special effects were outstanding. Even the music score. Rachel Weiss and Hugh Jackman are both awesome. This movie has inspired me to see this director's other film, "Open Your Eyes". This director reminds me of another "misunderstood" director, M. Knight Shayamalan. They are both very much ahead of their time.
boring, awful, worse then director Ed Wood
posted on 22 Aug 2009Sad to say I rented this movie,as I settle down for the night to watch this movie with bated breath, and to think I waisted my time and money to watch a man, cry, throw fits, and is mad thru-out the movie, kiss and talk to a hairy tree, and sits in a bubble, doing some new age crap,flashing back and forth getting sea sick, If only I had a pin I would burst the bubble. The reviews lied to us, I will never listen to them again And they say Ed Wood was a bad director, Ed Wood,s Plan 9 from outer space was much better. I think I could direct a better movie then this. Watching my dogs snoring was far more entertaining then this movie. If you care about your time don't rent this movie.
Like an abstract painting
posted on 22 Aug 2009This film is visually beautiful. If you put a lot of stock in cinematography, this will be a delight for you.If you put a lot of stock in understanding the story, this film will be a big disappointment.If I were to compare this film to a painting (which I think is a fair comparison, since both are works of art), it would be abstract modern art. The Fountain is truly one of those movies that leaves a lot for your mind to ponder, and I generally like that. Unfortunately, I felt this film was too disjointed. Most people don't stare at one piece of abstract art for 2 hours as this movie asks you to. I needed a little more explanation about how everything fit together. I fully believe that there is a wonderful story to go with this eye candy, but this movie did not tell it to me.In good movies, an hour into the film, I'm hoping the story will go on forever. In this film, I couldn't wait for it to be over.
Bad Movie. Good story.
posted on 20 Aug 2009I'm certain, this movie was or is or could be a good book. Unfortunately, that's all it adds up to. As a movie it is boring, slow, unbelievable, and did I say boring? Many times throughout the movie, I found myself wanting to leave and or wanting to go to sleep. I struggled to get through it. At one point, I was tempted to sneak into another movie. If I would have rented this movie, I would have turned it off after 15 minutes. I repeat (simply because I must have a minimum of 10 lines.) I'm certain, this movie was or is or could be a good book. Unfortunately, that's all it adds up to. As a movie it is boring, slow, unbelievable, and did I say boring? Many times throughout the movie, I found myself wanting to leave and or wanting to go to sleep. I struggled to get through it. At one point, I was tempted to sneak into another movie. If I would have rented this movie, I would have turned it off after 15 minutes.
Death is the Road to Awe
posted on 20 Aug 2009Writer/director Darren Aronofsky ("Pi" and "Requiem for a Dream") starts his "Fountain" on uneven footing with a cumbersome mystical underpinning, but once you realize what the film is actually about, it works quite splendidly. Even during the more perplexing moments of cerebral and spiritual gobbily-gook, Aronofsky hooks you with the amazing visuals and beautiful transitions from scene to scene. Top notch acting and another great score from Clint Mansell keep "The Fountain" fluid and entertaining."The Fountain" tells the story of a brilliant neuroscientist (Hugh Jackman in a surprisingly heartfelt and brave performance) passionately working on experimental treatments in a race to save his wife (Rachel Weisz, luminously photographed here by her husband Aronofsky, though given a one-note character to work with as the goddess-incarnate) from an inoperable brain tumor. The film chronicles this man's ascent into an elaborate fantasy world made up of his own desires to conquer death and his wife's transcendent views of the universe as witnessed through her deathbed writing project dealing with the legend of the Tree of Life. The flights of fancy depicted are varying in their effectiveness. The Spanish Inquistion and Conquistidor episodes are breathtaking and full or rich, dark visuals and primordial themes on the nature of man. The transcendental meditation segments are quite banal, though end with a stunning visual flourish at the film's climax.Aronofsky doesn't quite reach the profound revelations of Kubrick's "2001: A Space Odyssey" (which truly relished in a realistic futurism built on man's desire to create more perfect technology) or the true transcendence of Terrence Malick's recent "The New World" (which miraculously depicted a true state of grace through its gritty grounding in realism). Aronofsky's feelings on the circle of life and how in order to cheat death man must accept death are ultimately simplistic but endearing and ring true. Wrapping that noble truth in beautiful visual compositions, he stakes his claim as a true auteur.
Weird and Boring
posted on 20 Aug 2009Requiem for a Dream was one of the most gripping cinematic experiences I have experienced, so when I learned that Darren Aronofsky was behind The Fountain, I became quite interested. Unfortunately I found The Fountain to be weird, boring, and unenlightening.The first problem I had with this film was the weird imagery. With no clear narrative introducing the characters or story, I quickly became disorientated by the surreal, insular settings. The three layered plot also served to distance me from the main protagonists. When I can't empathise with the characters, I can't make any connection with the film at all.Remaining an observer, rather than feeling like a participant, I coldly noted the visual and stylistic symmetry between the different time periods, and the way the three threads came together, but because the story and characters failed to draw me in, I felt no concern with the race to save the dying Izzi. Instead I looked at my watch, looked about the cinema, and wondered how long it would be until I could go home.The ultimate message of the film - not to fight inevitable death, but to surrender to it, and also to embrace and cherish the moment, although potentially profound, was presented in a form for babies to digest. The Fountain therefore plays more like an ultra long video clip than a film. If I was given a second chance to relive a moment, like Dr. Tom Creo, I would probably walk out of the film rather than sit through until the end.With no rich dialogue, weird and insular settings, characters we are expected to care about but who are strangers lost in a child's nightmare, I cannot recommend this film to anyone.I record this review as a warning amongst a sea of positive, gushing reviews, to warn the discerning film goer. It seems the drought of truly interesting films continues for now.
Something I've never seen before... Perfect!
posted on 20 Aug 2009In one word, wonderful... This movie is an explosion of visuals, sound and emotions that can't make anybody stay still. It's really psychologically strong and, even if everybody can't really appreciate the story, everybody can take a deep breathe and let their soul enjoy this great trip into human heart. It's all about death, in a way that no one has shown it before, I can't even find the words to describe it! Emotionaly, it's really strong and should not be seen by young children, but it's so beautiful! Go see it right now, you won't regret it! I think this movie is one of the best pieces of art I've seen in all my life!
Indecipherable
posted on 16 Aug 2009I see the stellar reviews, I know somebody must see something in this movie. Are you kidding yourself? What a mess, what a mess, indeed. The storyline is so confusing I don't believe anybody really knows what is going on. The director is intent on bringing us back and forth to a couple scenes slamming this into our brains. These scenes mean nothing. I had no attachment with any of the characters.This is not a sci-fi, action nor drama. It is a collection of images that have no beginning and no end. Save yourself the trouble please. Not recommended for any ages, especially if you are above the age of 18 and sane.I swore after watching Twin Fires that I would never see another Lynch film, now I swear the same for this guy.
Mystical crap........
posted on 14 Aug 2009I have seen random doodles that made more sense than "The Fountain". The movie is so confusing that the viewer quickly loses interest. Unfortunately the film goes on and on spewing forth "new age" images, dark scenes that are barely viewable, and intermingled story lines that are a total waste of brainpower. If you try and figure out what is going on you will only be frustrated. Imagine taking three separate and totally unrelated movies and then editing them into one film. The results would leave everyone bewildered and shaking their head in disbelief. That is "The Fountain" only worse. Avoid at all costs. You have been warned. This movie is nothing more than mystical crap. - MERK
Poor Direction With An Ambiguous Conclusion
posted on 10 Aug 2009This is the only movie that has had me wanting to leave the theatre. It is an interesting story that could have been accomplished much better. The stunning visuals only served to confuse the metaphor the movie tried to express. The film direction was stuffy and prolonged. Unnecessary close-ups stifled dialog, while unessential pauses and scenes that should have been cut shorter killed interest. Environmental lighting darkened the film at every turn setting a dismal tone throughout the entire movie. Changes in this lighting could have complimented transitions between scenes/time periods. The conclusion was overly ambiguous and slightly contrived. Any casual movie-goer will not appreciate this movie, and anyone who loves 'deep' movies will still question the quality of this film. This is a 'thinker' movie that does not accomplish its purpose and leaves you wanting more than just your eight dollars back. Few movies have actually earned my passion of disdain, this is one. Hugh Jackman's acting was great but, at points, seemed forced. Rachel Weiss' acting was entrancing, but her character was not real to me, not to her fault though. But all this was overshadowed by the lack of continuity of characters and concepts between realities. The film assumes the dignity of a deep movie and tries to dazzle with pretty colors, but it is pretentious in assuming it has a deep-inner meaning.
The Fountain fills you with life and emotion and doesn't leave you apathetic in your seat
posted on 10 Aug 2009Welcome to the lucid, dreamy, drugged up world of Darren Aronofsky. If you've seen Requiem for a Dream and/or Pi, welcome back. Aronofsky's world is a creepy place to be in if you're not in the right mood, so my first advice would be to just let go. The Fountain is told in a non-linear, rarely coherent manner. Like Requiem, it jumps from sequence to sequence like a rushed up video clip, shows you the lowest depths of human nature but unlike its predecessor, it also has an upside in tempo, in the final, somewhat optimistic message, and in general feel.Without getting too much into details (it would just ruin the whole thing), i'll some the plot up by saying it deals with a love story that spans over 1,000 years (the first occurring somewhere circa 1,500 a.d., the last around 2,500 a.d. and the main one told in current time). In the main arc, Hugh Jackman plays a tortured doctor seeking treatment to his ill wife's sickness (Academy Award winning actress Rachel Weisz), and finding a possible cure in the form of the mythological fountain of youth. Throughout the various plots, it is evident that our protagonist is not willing to give up his love without a vicious, courageous struggle against death and eternity. The final build up is also very satisfying, as Aronofsky makes his way toward the ending in a similar crescendo fashion with which Requiem for a Dream ended as well. Unlike the latter, The Fountain actually ends with something good to ponder about. It fills you with life and emotion and doesn't leave you apathetic in your seat. It's the greatest affect a movie can have on you. The Fountain delivers the goods.
Slow and Boring, even Pretentious!
posted on 10 Aug 2009The Fountain fails where other, much simpler love stories succeed. Eternal Sunshine Of A Spotless Mind for example, works because the lead characters, Winslet and Carrey have a certain chemistry together. The talented Jackman and Weisz for some reason don't. No sparks fly between the pair and this is a problem when 'love' is what links the different narratives.Really, more time should have been given to establish the love between the leads. During the Spanish sequences, the sexual yet unfulfilled love between the Queen and her servant should have been electric. During the modern day scenes, Jackman's behaviour as the Doctor smacks of pity rather than love.Jackman does give a superb performance and Weisz while good, is less confident particularly as the Queen. The score is also a distraction because it is constant and listless. It is the same in whatever time period we are in. Moments of pause and a less syrupy approach would have helped.I found this movie slow and boring, even pretentious. This is mainly because I did not care for the fate of the main characters.
Quite possibly the single greatest movie ever made.
posted on 10 Aug 2009First, a caveat. If you are not a man, knock off a point. If you are not a man who has been desperately in love, knock off another. If those above statements do not apply to you, then this film wasn't for you. You may still enjoy it, find it beautiful, and rave about it, but this film was not for you.This film was for me.I remember telling my wife that there were no words in the English language to describe how much I loved her, but that I'd spend the rest of my life trying to show her. That is a true statement, but somehow The Fountain manages to describe that kind of love. The only reason I rated this movie a 10 was because that's as high as the scale goes. For me this film so far surpassed every other movie I'd ever seen that it's in an entirely different league.I've always been a movie buff. I spent years in a video store watching everything on the shelves. I thought I'd seen every good movie ever made, and several that were great. The Fountain, however, touched me; not only like no other movie ever has, but like no other work of art in the history of mankind has. I wept, nearly start to finish. And that has never even come close to happening before.The dialog and acting are rock solid. This will probably stand as the finest role of Jackman's career. And if the dialog seems a little over the top, then guess what, this film wasn't for you.I'd rate this 1,000,000/10 if I could. Darren has done something in film that to my knowledge no other work of art ever has. He's shown us, in painstaking detail, the anatomy of Love.
"The Fountain" blew me away...
posted on 06 Aug 2009This movie is undoubtedly one of the best movies ever created of all time. It takes on a whole new meaning to the concepts of primal fear, death, love, loss, creation, and rebirth. The critics are wrong. Listen to me and listen well.To me this movie has shown how the fear of death can run someone's life rather than letting the person live their life and experience the joy of living with loved ones.The soundtrack is notably one of the best around. "Death is the Road to Awe" on the soundtrack is a masterpiece. The music will surround you and drown you wave after wave of beauty and emotion.The visuals are amazing; mostly done without any CGI.I'm a guy and guys don't usually cry, but this movie made me cry. The story is not what you would think. The past and future are more likely than not metaphors to support the struggles of Tommy and his wife Izzy in the present. For most of the movie Tommy in a selfless and yet selfish ambition tries to find a cure for Izzy's tumor.This movie is not for people who are average. This movie is for those that think and comprehend on a much higher level. Keep your mind open and in the last 20 minutes I garantee you will feel what I felt.This movie has changed my life, and I can't say that about any other movie I've seen.See this film.
Fountain Review Some Spoilers
posted on 04 Aug 2009The Following are my impressions from today's screening in Toronto.I suggest you don't read this review, or any for that matter. Forget the Venice stuff, and the hissing at Toronto. Go to this film with an open mind. But if you're still here .I suppose I had a lot of expectations going into The Fountain. Besides the 6 year wait, I truly believed in Aronofsky's potential as a filmmaker. I knew that given the right material (and the right budget) Aronofsky could really make something great. From the moment the film began, thought, my expectations were completely shattered. I went in thinking I knew what this film would be, but the film proved to completely different. I thought I was going to see a Darren Aronofsky film as I knew them to be, complete with his usual cinematic vocabulary. Gone are the hip hop montages, the split screens, the snorri cam shots. This film worked on a completely different level, which wasn't a bad thing by any means. Just different. It took some getting used to, and I definitely think a second viewing with help with the acclimation (Thankfully, I only have to wait two weeks for Fantastic Fest!!)In fact, as Aronofsky pointed at the introduction to the film on Tuesday, The Fountain and his previous efforts are completely different. Don't get me wrong. The Fountain is still very much an Aronofsky film in its dizzying use of dozes of layers of thematic ideas, dazzling visuals, and emotionally crippling narratives. But things feel different this time around. It all boils down the fact that I've simply never had to process a film like The Fountain before, which leaves me both confused and amazed. The structure of the film is pretty much old news by now. Tomas, Tommy, Tom Creo is a man of three different times (1500 Spain & New America, 2006 America, 2500 Space). In the past he is a conquistador struggling to find the tree of life for his queen, Isabella. In the present he is a cancer research specialist struggling to find a cure for the cancer killing his wife, Izzy. And in the future, Tom, a combination of the past and present meditates in deep space, with painful memories and hopes of a solution to his single greatest need. Once the film shifts into the third act, which is difficult to pinpoint since much of the movie plays like three separate third acts, the film goes into overdrive, relying most on images and the music of Clint Mansell (with Kronos Quarter & Mogwai). It's a powerful conclusion, and while not completely spelled out, more than wraps everything up. More than that, its the most satisfying 20 minutes of film I've seen in a long time. Visually, the film is nothing short of spectacular. Aronofsky did the right thing by not relying solely on computers. Instead, he assembled a hodge-podge of effects crews including Peter Parks crew (microphotography) as well as his long time collaborator (and once roommate) Jeremy Dawson of Amoeba Proteus (Aronofsky and Dawson's SFX company). The visual tapestry they create is jaw-dropping. Trust me. You've never (and most likely will never) seen stuff like this on screen. The score by Clint Mansell also surprised me. I guess I was expecting Requiem for a Dream II. The music plays throughout most of the film, with only one or two scenes operating in silence. The music is never triumphant (as I thought it would be) and instead creates an organic rhythm that is finally granted release in the most spectacular moment in the film. Sorry, I'm not giving that away. Mogwai's contribution seems to function mostly in the 1500 time period, giving the period piece quite a unique and dangerous edge to it. Of course, the Kronos Quartet amazes again, and really provides the score with some emotion. Those Clint Mansell fans who happen to like his composition, "The Last Man" will be happy to know that the theme is prevalent throughout much of the film, and plays over the closing credits.The editing of the film must've been a large challenge to get right, but for the most part they get it. The film uses a lot of fades, which gives the film a feeling of breathing, of a heart beat. It sets up an interesting rhythm which accelerates as Tommy gets more frantic. Thematically, the films delves into some pretty heavy territory. There is a scene in the film involving Tommy after Izzy's death which left me feeling uneasy about Tommy's character and where the film was taking me. He decides to continue on with his research, revealing a darker shade of Tommy's character. The Fountain is not an easy film emotionally, and those expecting a Hollywood treatment of the concept of death will be surprised. The Fountain is about accepting death, which is something most people aren't ready to do. I admit I'm not sure if I'm ready to deal with that. However, if the Fountain is even half right about the implications of death, there's really nothing to fear. Again, The Fountain really surprised me. I wasn't expecting it to turn out the way it did. Instead of being the movie I wanted it to be, it was the movie I'd never even imagined. The Fountain is a beautiful film, and I'm thankful that Warner Bros.gave this film a chance. Thank you, WB & Regency. Forget the reviews, (including this one) and go see this movie for yourself. Give into it. Love the characters Tommy & Izzy as Aronofsky intended. If you do, I promise you the experience will be a completely rewarding one.Finally, thank you to everyone involved in the making of The Fountain. It was truly a rewarding experience, and worth the wait.
Holy Overbloatedness, Batman
posted on 04 Aug 2009What dreck, friends. Truly. There is a sense of this film that the spirituality of cross-epochal spirits gain some kind of biblical understanding, but come ON! The tree of life segments read like bad performance art and the pulsating music is Philip Glass meets a broken squeeze-box.The colonial element and the Mayan knowledge of the heavens, religion versus science and immortality, and this pall of Rachel Weisz' imminent death screams overblown pretentiousness with not a little amount of ridiculous myth-grabbing. Freaking garbage. Truly.Hugh Jackman and Rachel Weisz are stars in the making for the ages, but not this way, not this way. A friend was expecting Highlander and of course it was nothing of the sort. I was looking for something might actually makes sense to me and not be so laboriously heavy-handed. I think this film might be more for people who believe in reincarnation and past lives. Inevitably, one believes that they were the queen of Spain in a past life during the Inquisition or a conquering conquistador. Recommend for people who believe in reincarnation.
Beautiful, haunting and flawed
posted on 04 Aug 2009For the first time in his career, Aronofsky didn't manage to top himself. The Fountain is a wonderful film, but not as well worked out as requiem (and perhaps even Pi). The visuals are stunning, the music is beautiful and works really well in the movie and the acting is close to being perfect. However the story and the themes therein we're presented with are flawed. The story as is, can be explained in different ways. First of all the explanation the film gives us at first glance and the way its described by most: The 3 stories spanning a 1000 years, all come together in the end. This is quite original and done reasonably well, but its not as deep as it seems to be. When you're dealing with themes of eternal life there are many aspects to explore and the movie fails to do so.The way I see it this movie has nothing to do with sci-fi, it just doesn't span a 1000 years. You've got you're present, you've got a work of FICTION playing in the 16th century and a symbolic, visual representation of hope and the emotions of tommy (him with the tree).The tree is representing Izzy and hope.. hope that his wife will live. The scenes of him sitting with the tree are imho cut to support this theory. In a way even the ending. He's mourned long enough and its time to leave this frame of mind, so he separates from the tree. Creating something ex nihilo - being a "new" life for himself. For me this is far more meaningful and poetic than a love story spanning a 1000 years. The scene of him actually drinking the sap and turning into plant life (perhaps eternal plant life.. who knows) is IMO how he ends her book after she died, being in such a cynic frame of mind. While perhaps knowing/at least having ideas about how she would have finished it herself, this again seeping through in his subconscious and perhaps in the plot of the film as is. So the film IMO is a mix of reality and her book, with multiple ideas of an ending for the book.And also one more comment about the music, its beautiful and works to create tension in the movie, BUT for a Aronofsky - Mansell collaboration I'd love to see/hear something more out of the ordinary. The music sets the mood and does that well.. but it sets a common mood and again with Aronofsky/Mansell you expect something truly original. All this lead me to award the movie 7 out of 10 stars and I recommend it highly to anyone who likes to watch a movie and think at the same time. cheers, Mental



Aronofsky may be appreciated by some, BUT.........
posted on 30 Aug 2009I am not an Aronofsky fan. I did not appreciate this film at all, I'm sure there was a great deal of symbolism, etc., just not a movie for me. I had previously seen Pi and thought that was crap, so for me, watching this film and not liking it was my fault. The film itself I found incongruent, it did not seem to follow any set pattern or storyline. maybe it's the form of direction, I don't care for movies that bounce around like this one did. If a viewer is a fan of Aronofsky, he or she may appreciate this movie, I personally, felt it was a waste of the "celluloid" (and two hours of my life!) When Warner Bros. first decided to cancel production, they should have left well enough alone.